(As originally published on April 8, 2018)
What Bradley Marr told preachers to do likely went against everything that called them to their pulpits.
Talk that shooter into killing himself, and don't waste time about it.
“Because what happens when police encounter bad guys in a mass shooting? What does he do? He kills his stinkin’ self. You want him to die, right there, right now, as fast as possible. I know I’m talking to a bunch of preachers; that’s OK. I’d rather him be dying than your congregation be dying.”
And a few "amens" rang back among other murmured approvals from the crowd.
The talk by Marr, chief deputy of the Sabine Parish Sheriff's Office, happened in late November 2017 before approximately 200 pastors and church leaders at the First Baptist Church of Leesville. In the wake of the Sutherland Springs, Texas, shooting that killed 25 people, including a pregnant woman and her unborn child, the topic of church security went public.
Nathan Martin, a pastor and Pineville city council member, said every pastor he knows is taking the issue very seriously and has some manner of plan already in place.
"Some are hiring off-duty officers, while others are utilizing congregation members who are also law enforcement officers. And some are identifying and authorizing members who have concealed-carry permits," he said.
Though not new discussions, Martin said recent shootings have pastors eager to reassure their congregations that security is important.
Similar meetings have been held in Concordia, Rapides and Sabine parishes. The Grant Parish Sheriff's Office began offering church security classes, a mandatory step required to carry weapons in church under Louisiana law.
Marr spoke about the law to the Vernon group, but didn't seem to be a fan. Legislators failed to include a training curriculum with the law, he said. It does require that church leaders notify their congregations and insurance carriers about weapons in churches, however.
Those who do carry in churches must have a concealed carry permit. About half of Marr's audience had the permits, which requires them to pass an eight-hour training course.
But, he asked, are you willing to use that weapon to end a life?
Marr said even some law enforcement officers, sure that they are capable of engaging in a gunfight, resign after their first one. That's not a reflection on the type of person they are, he said.
"Some people can; some people can't."
'Guardian of the flock'
He also asked whether they counseled church members having relationship or marital problems. Again, about half the group raised their hands.
"The stats say that those are the people that's going to cause your mass killings. Domestic violence is the No. 1 reason that people shoot up everything," said Marr. "Sutherland Springs, Texas ... that's exactly what it was about."
How can such a thing happen, he asked. Because they didn't have a plan and haven't trained for it, he answered.
"You're the guardian of the flock," he told the group. "You're the one that's going to have to take care of business in the church because if you're not the leader, and you're not trying to do something, the congregation's just gonna follow."
Marr stressed that church leaders must have a plan to respond to incidents and must train for them with role players. Know where exits are. Make sure windows can be opened for escape and that they are free of things that can impede that.
"Do you do that?" he asked. "Do you make walk-arounds of your church to see what's there? Something to think about."
He said such things are common sense, but not common knowledge.
'Leave church at the door'
The Grant Sheriff's Office has offered a church security course at regular intervals since late 2017. In each one, instructors strive to make their students realize the seriousness of what they're undertaking.
"We're here to learn how to kill people," said Capt. James Watkins. Leave church at the door for this training, they're told.
Groups train at Man Cave Archery in Bentley. On Good Friday, a group of about 12 is split in half. Some will go to the range for live-fire training, while the others will receive classroom instruction. Later in the day, they'll flip.
But each class begins by watching an "Inside Edition" clip about those who died and those who survived the Sutherland Springs shooting. As it rolls, and a narrator talks about a mother who shielded her children with her body, some shake their heads.
Sgt. Joshua Daniels, an instructor, says the video still brings him to tears and makes his skin crawl.
"That church was in a community like Georgetown, Bentley," he says. "People lost their lives because they weren't prepared."
Daniels completed a church security and home protection course offered by the National Rifle Association, as did his wife, Kiley Daniels. They both teach the concealed carry and church security courses in Grant Parish.
"It gives us a chance to get both women and men. Some women aren't comfortable with men teaching," said Kiley, and vice versa. "It gives us the advantage to help them."
The courses have been exceedingly popular in Grant Parish. The first ones filled up shortly after they were announced, and the classes have been offered since.
Those taking the class are told they have choices to make about how to carry while in church. They're told to train as often as they can, and to realize that they're not going to church on Sunday to hear the word of the Lord.
They're there to protect those who come to worship. They have to be willing to run to a shooter while everyone else is running away and be trained well enough to shoot the right person.
On the range
Man Cave Archery is in Bentley, off La. Highway 8. The range is well away from the classroom and, on Good Friday, running water from torrential rains the day before still flows between students and the shooting line.
Owner Stephen Briggs hooks a trailer up to an all-terrain vehicle to get the six people across the water. Watkins tells them they'll be starting with a confidence building exercise, shooting 24 rounds at targets from 10 yards.
It's also an opportunity for Watkins and Deputy Vic Lemoine to assess the skills of the two women and four men shooting.
Lemoine tells them to take their time. Don't try to shoot fast because, as the distance grows from the target, accuracy will suffer. He also tells them to keep in mind why they're training.
"Just keep in mind the scenario because, in a church setting, if something like this happens ... with an active shooter, you're going to have people running everywhere," he said. "You don't want to hit someone innocent, so you need to focus on ... that smooth trigger pull and be accurate. Not fast."
"I know you're getting a lot of information," said Watkins. "It's like drinking water from a fire hose."
After the first round of firing, Lemoine tells a man on the far right that his shots are straying to the left. He spends a few minutes with the man to show him a better technique.
Meanwhile, Watkins tallies up the scores on the targets. "Good shooting," he says to the man on the far left.
The group then steps back to shoot from 15 yards. One woman has trouble, so Watkins stands slightly behind her on her left, talking her through it.
"Grab that slide. Jerk it to the rear," he says, as the gun clicks. "There you go. Remember your grip."
The woman begins to shoot, firing three shots before stopping.
"Breathe. You've got to breathe," he whispers.
'Lockdowns taught us to die'
There's no one perfect security plan to fit all churches, said Marr. But he did urge leaders to use the expertise that might be right under their noses — law enforcement or veterans who attend their churches.
They can help with security assessments and measures on their church campuses, he said. It's a necessity because police probably will arrive at an active-shooter incident after the shooting is over, he said.
Take Vernon Parish. Marr said there are four patrolmen and a supervisor working on any given Sunday, covering 1,328 square miles of a mostly rural parish. A murmur rippled through the crowd as the realization sunk in of what that could mean for response times.
"How long do you think it's gonna take someone to get there to take care of the threat for you?" he asked.
A response tactic used across the country — ALICE, or Alert Lockdown Inform Counter Evacuate — isn't perfect, he said. Marr was critical of lockdowns, saying they only work if the bad guy can't get inside.
A better strategy is to flee, if possible. "If you hear gunfire, and you can get away, you get away," he said. "Don't sit there and crawl under your desk. Ever. Ever.
"Lockdowns taught us to die," he said.
Locking down and locking in are two different things, said Marr. He mentioned several simple ways to make sure doors can't be breached.
He also urged leaders to plan for meeting responding officers, reminding them that anyone spotted with a weapon will be perceived as a threat. You may be trying to tell the officer that you just shot the bad guy, but — to that officer, in that instant — you are the bad guy, said Marr.
"If you haven't thought about that, start thinking about it now," he said. "If you have armed people in your church, you have to think what you're going to do with first contact with law enforcement. We are going to be rude, business-like and not very friendly."
Future plans
The cooperation between churches and law enforcement will continue.
The Vernon Parish Sheriff's Office had plans to offer the church security course, like the one in Grant, at some point. Sheriff Sam Craft also told attendees at the November meeting that his office would help church leaders with security assessments at their campuses.
Then, on June 19, the Rapides Parish Sheriff's Office will host an active-shooter preparedness workshop at the Granberry Conference Center in Pineville.
"We want everybody on the same page and, if they want further training, we can look into ways to offer that at the level the organization decides they need," said Capt. Tommy Carnline, Rapides' public information officer.
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